alfreda89 | Length of Chapters?

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Length of Chapters?

How long are your chapters? Do you have any firm views about chapter length?

W has been listening to a lot of podcasts about writing. Mike Stackpole has been doing a "Book in 21 days" series, and mentions that he crafts his chapters to be 2500 words long. I see that as ten pages or so. He is convinced that this is a comfortable amount for someone reading one chapter a night, fast enough that the reader is committed to the book, and shorter chapters give the reader a sense of accomplishment.

I've always aimed for 25 pages, with three scenes in them. They can vary as far as 20-30 pages. Sixteen chapters, ~ 400 pages, and anywhere from 110-120,000 words in length. 110,000 words seems to be my natural length for a novel.

How long are your chapters? Do you have a reason for that length?

As a reader, do you prefer shorter chapters? Or do you not really notice chapter length?

I hope to stop by later today to see what y'all think. In the meantime, errands that must be handled.

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As a reader, I prefer longer chapters.

Mine seem to go 3000- 3500 words. Much longer and I lose the shape of them. Much shorter and I have too darn many chapters to write. I'm trying now to write between 75-85,000 for YA and 90-100,000 for urban fantasy. My first novel was 145,000 and that is after I tried to cut it down as far as possible.

Interesting. I notice chapters only so much as that I read a lot of books out loud. I like a chapter that can be read out loud in an hour ... but then, I don't mind putting a book down in a climactic moment, because I enjoy the sensation of "tenterhooks" until I get back. It was years before I noticed that Pratchett didn't have chapters at all.

It was years before I noticed that Pratchett didn't have chapters at all.

I didn't notice until I read MOVING PICTURES and could not get into it -- I don't even have the book anymore. I kept looking ahead for characters I wanted to follow, and suddenly realized there were no chapters.

This is amusing because FIRE SANCTUARY was written with scene changes, and no chapters. It drove Lillian Stewart Carl nuts, and she insisted that I break it into chapters.

But I also kept the date/place/time scene headers... ;^)

That might not necessarily be the fault of the chapters. I found Moving Pictures to be one of his least-engaging books, although I know some (movie buff) people who are particularly fond of it.

Actually, I don't blame the lack of chapters for disliking it. It just happened to be the book where I made the discovery! I always forget Pratchett does that, and then I think "I'll read until the end of the chapter" and, ho-ho-ho, no chapter endings!

And then there's Terry Pratchett.

Chapter? What's a chapter?

As a reader, I tend to favor shorter chapters (in the 10-15 page range) because there's often not a good place to stop for the night with longer chapters. And if the author's particularly devious about the chapter cliff hanger, I may even opt to push back sleep for TWO chapters in one night. And feel considerably hedonistic in doing so. As a writer, I'm trying for shorter lengths, but I'm not sure that I'm succeeding at this point. =)

My chapters tend to be about 30-33 pages in length -- I don't know why, but that length just feels right to me.

I know what you mean about it "feeling right". It's as if my subconscious has decided exactly the tone and rising or falling action before I even sit down to finish the chapter.

Good thing, too. The conscious brain is way too musy to write right now...

Chapter length on my current middle grade projects is being influenced by my writing group, since we're supposed to read about 1000 words in a session. So while I'd normally go about 2000 to 2500 for a chapter (for a non-children's book), I'm going 1200 to 1500 for these projects. It feels very comfortable, actually!

---Ellen

Chapters take their own length, generally; individual books seem to call out for different lengths, but we almost always give chapters their head. With Fledgling we find that the schedule tends to make the chapters more uniform (despite what some readers say)and I can't call that good or bad yet.

Blast --

Just lost the first answer on this -- with FLEDGLING, the bizarre world is interesting and draws you in. But, since we know she has a "problem" for the delm, we are all waiting for the training wheels to fall off. We know we're in the past of I DARE, but still, we wait for the usual Luck of Korval to implode and then leave the survivors with interesting benefits. (I'm still wondering how much money Korval made off moving to another planet!)

I like having a good place to stop. I don't mind short chapters. I think this is because I read some of what is referred to as YA, and the standards seem to be a bit different. 10 pages seems kind of short for an adult oriented book, but then I don't feel "accomplishment" from finishing a chapter.

I think this is because I read some of what is referred to as YA, and the standards seem to be a bit different.

Actually, YA does have different requirements -- spaces between actual time and place shifts. The idea is that YA readers may be transitioning from books with pictures, and this eases the transition. (I got that from Jane Yolen.)

Personally, I appreciate the line break -- as you say, it's a comfortable place where I can decide whether or not to continue now, or at a later time. With the monstrous stress and time constraints people are working under today, I figure that anything I do to make readers comfortable (short of writing simpler -- I don't do simpler, I try to do clear and depth, and you can go as deep as you want or can -- ) is A Good Thing.

Middle grade readers might be transitioning from books with pictures; YA readers have been reading books without pictures for a long time, though. :-)

Since Jane writes for all levels, that's probably an accurate statement! ;^) She told me that when we were submitting to WEREWOLVES! and VAMPIRES! (Allie was by then too complex for the second anthology -- she was becoming a book/F&SF novelette.)

I think that anthology was rated YA 10-12 yrs. The term YA must have expanded in the ten years since the anthology. You've sold YA since then, so I believe you. But I read on a 12th grade level in the fourth grade, so I was one of the weird ones. (Nationally -- not among SF/Fantasy readers/writers. A lot of us were like that...)

Yeah, 10-12 would be middle grade. Though the terms can all get pretty fluid at their edges, too. But I think YA is generally considered 12 and up (but read by younger, of course); while middle grade is 8-12 (but read by both older and younger as well).

And then people talk about "younger YA" and "older middle grade" and the lines really begin to look blurred!

Can I let the editor figure out where to put it?

Ppppleeeeze?

I just want to write good stories.

Actually, you pretty much can, as I understand it. Submit the book, and let the editor decide.

Lots (most) publishers who do YA also do MG anyway ...

I decided recently that I spent way too much time trying to figure out how to aim stuff, market stuff, write what was popular. I've always been ahead of the curve. If I'd only written the proposed novels instead of looking for a sale on a partial, I could have a full time career right now, probably.

So -- my job is WRITER. Everything else is Jon's ball of wax.

You know, I came to this same conclusion a few years ago. I was writing proposals, the proposals weren't selling, which meant both that my career was stalling out and I wasn't getting the satisfaction of at least finishing the books I'd started.

I'm much happier writing complete books, and seem to be doing better that way too. I wouldn't rule out doing proposals again--I don't know what said career will or won't want a few years from now--but I wish I'd spent less time writing proposals and worrying about markets, too.

I'm also beginning to think writing what I want to write is good market strategy, because it results in books no one else can write, meaning my books can't be swapped out for someone else's next season, say--even if it also means finding the right editor for those books can take a bit longer.

I'm also beginning to think writing what I want to write is good market strategy, because it results in books no one else can write, meaning my books can't be swapped out for someone else's next season, say--even if it also means finding the right editor for those books can take a bit longer.

I hope so, too. Let's hang on to that diamond in a coal mine!

I don't have a specific length in mind, it needs to be at a good point to break the story. Why cramp a story if it needs to be longer or shorter.

That being said, I feel that an author can usually find a good natural break in narative and make a chapter end there. It does give me a chance to get some sleep.

I find chapters that go on and on annoying. If I am not really into a book it makes me think that the author doesn't have a handle upon their own pacing. Very few books need chapters that are forty or fifty pages long. Most authors cannot sustain the action continuously for that long.

So, break the chapters when there is a good break in the story. This can often be a good way to indicate that "time passes" without being jarring.

YMMV :-)

David

Just my opinion

So, break the chapters when there is a good break in the story. This can often be a good way to indicate that "time passes" without being jarring.

Quite true. Writing smooth transitions is an art, one we work hard at!

Mine vary anywhere from 500 words to 5000 ... I can't imagine having a set chapter length for all my chapters from the start, because I do think every chapter has its natural ending point, and that making the chapters too uniform might make the story not flow as well, or be less textured, or something.

I suppose that's what I was saying about mine -- As short as 20, as long as 30. I'm sure we could find a 15 pager in there somewhere. But I'm talking Allie Books. Who knows with the Nuala SF?

Any time I make any pronouncement about how my writing works the next book proves me wrong anyway. :-)

Do you think the subconscious takes a fiendish delight in this behavior? ;^)

I'm with Stackpole. I like 10 pages MS format both as a writer and a reader. Shorter chapters and I feel like I've artificially inflated the word count. Longer and I get hung up. (I will let a chapter go to 12-14 pages if necessary, otherwise I look for ways to split a scene.)

As a reader, my reading time is very limited, shorter chapters keep me from stopping mid chapter and never going back to it.

That does make sense. You have me wondering if I should try an experiment, and print it out two ways -- and give it to first readers to see what they think. Even as controlled as, check in with the other person at a certain point -- or with me -- with a quick note to how they're responding to the story....

I try to organize my scenes with the Swight Swain/Jack Bickman structure of a character with a GOAL, CONFLICT to that goal, ending with a DISASTER to the goal.

Ending a chapter with a big DISASTER makes it easier for the reader to keep turning pages. Ten pages just fits the way I write with that scenerio. I do have to admit that my mystrery has several 7 page chapters, allowing for me to add to them caus I know I will.

Hummm...I've never been quite that organized about scenes, although I do think there's a goal, a conflict, and some kind of resolution to each scene.

Might be interesting to go over the manuscript before final pass and see if I have that form...

The disaster can be a hook or a question, just something to make the reader read one more page to find out...

It is an issue that never occurred to me as a reader. I just read, and stop at the end of a paragraph or in the middle of a sentence, or wherever.

I tend to treat it that way, too. If I needed to stop, I did, and a bookmark gave me the approximate place where I wanted to start again....

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Length of Chapters?

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YA length vs. adult

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Hrrmm,

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Yup.

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