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Do you cannibalize your old manuscripts?
No, not for Allie.... I needed something else today.
For now, it's just a fragment of Fox & Darkhorse:
So. To the writers among us -- how many of you have cannibalized an old manuscript? To the point that the previous book, which you (and others) may have loved, is gone forever?
In 1991, in an attempt to widen my horizons, since I could tell that Warner had killed my SF series, and did not want the fantasy I proposed, I wrote a mystery. I wrote it for myself, really, and for relatives who would never touch my fantastical stuff. It is a fantasy mystery in that I invented a decent-sized island in Lake Michigan to host the story (there are LOTS of islands in the Great Lakes, but mine is south of the real Beaver Island, and has a history of Irish monks, native tribes, bootleggers, and ghosts.) I like the characters, I don't think it was horribly predictable, and every time I sent it out, it was read to pieces. Even Jon, my "new" agent sent it out. He tried mainstream. That was when I discovered I apparently wasn't mainstream enough for the 90s. The book "did not have enough angst" for mainstream, according to one editor. It could not be the "B&B mystery" because they had B&B mysteries at each house. It was more accurately an amateur detective who saw and heard ghosts, a artist in stained glass who could travel a lot of locations, because of the depth of the world-building/characters. The B&B was a character in the first book, but wasn't crucial for other books.
Well. Although it went out again not long ago, I have despaired of selling it. I have been contemplating a small, private printing so my aunts and other relatives in their 70s-90s can have a copy before they're admiring it from another plane of existence.
As for other things, I had a resurgence of the Spider goddess book (apparently when I became ill, my subconscious went on without me...) and also something modern in a way I didn't expect, about a man who has become a shape shifter, a soldier who speaks a dozen languages and was never used for his linguistic talents until recently, who was pushed out not because he may be bi (he's still of two minds on that) but because he refused to question and dismiss a man in his command that was suspected of being gay -- and about another young man who is part of an unusual family, who is brilliant but very right-brained, so the world doesn't have a place to slot in his genius. He has a long, twisted history of personal rejection on multiple fronts, despite his strengths, and oh, he's a shaman, as is his attorney brother -- whether they like it or not. There is this thing about power building each generation if not used, and.... Well.
I see a fantasy novel here, but I try never to leave people out when I write. A dear friend said: "Will anyone read it if the protagonists are gay, or maybe gay?" Yes, nowadays, it indeed will be read, if a good enough story. But it's a point -- so...suddenly Keelin, the female protagonist in the mystery, is jumping up and down and waving her arms and saying HEY!
"What if instead of being part Ojibwa, I'm half a made-up tribe, the majority of whom are shamans? And I'm the daughter of a Darkhorse daughter -- and Ash is the son of a Darkhorse son. So we have a big mix, straights with no children, my sister and cousins with children, and the shifter who doesn't know that he also has relatives in this direction, although their family tried to be bad guys and -- "
"WAIT!" I yell. "For heaven's sake, don't give me four books right now! The question is -- are you ready to kill BLIND TIGER as it currently exists? Maybe even half your and D's story to fit Fox and Ash in here? Or would y'all still be in two books?"
Long silence. Characters are realists -- they know if they die somewhere else, they may not be reborn. Life happens, as my illness shows. Still -- looking at what I want for the new story, and looking at the world-building underneath BLIND TIGER already -- it feels like 20% of the idea is already done. 60-75%, if I do a first book with Keelin and "Steve", and a second with them supporting Ash and Fox.
So --
1) Have you killed a novel before? A novel you liked, whose time just doesn't seem to be rolling around?
2) Did you screw around with the idea a while, before stabbing the old book?
3) Why did you simply not make clones with different names, a la Georgette Heyer and THE BLACK MOTH?
4) When did you tell your agent? Should I ask him to pull the novel now, or should I go on the basis that should the book actually sell in its current form at the 11th hour -- I can file off the serial numbers in the fantasy using global search/replace.
Opinions? I'm curious how others have handled this. I may have answered my own question by writing those 8 pages today. But I welcome hearing what you did, and why you did it.
For now, it's just a fragment of Fox & Darkhorse:
| |
2,000 / 100,000 (2.0%) |
So. To the writers among us -- how many of you have cannibalized an old manuscript? To the point that the previous book, which you (and others) may have loved, is gone forever?
In 1991, in an attempt to widen my horizons, since I could tell that Warner had killed my SF series, and did not want the fantasy I proposed, I wrote a mystery. I wrote it for myself, really, and for relatives who would never touch my fantastical stuff. It is a fantasy mystery in that I invented a decent-sized island in Lake Michigan to host the story (there are LOTS of islands in the Great Lakes, but mine is south of the real Beaver Island, and has a history of Irish monks, native tribes, bootleggers, and ghosts.) I like the characters, I don't think it was horribly predictable, and every time I sent it out, it was read to pieces. Even Jon, my "new" agent sent it out. He tried mainstream. That was when I discovered I apparently wasn't mainstream enough for the 90s. The book "did not have enough angst" for mainstream, according to one editor. It could not be the "B&B mystery" because they had B&B mysteries at each house. It was more accurately an amateur detective who saw and heard ghosts, a artist in stained glass who could travel a lot of locations, because of the depth of the world-building/characters. The B&B was a character in the first book, but wasn't crucial for other books.
Well. Although it went out again not long ago, I have despaired of selling it. I have been contemplating a small, private printing so my aunts and other relatives in their 70s-90s can have a copy before they're admiring it from another plane of existence.
As for other things, I had a resurgence of the Spider goddess book (apparently when I became ill, my subconscious went on without me...) and also something modern in a way I didn't expect, about a man who has become a shape shifter, a soldier who speaks a dozen languages and was never used for his linguistic talents until recently, who was pushed out not because he may be bi (he's still of two minds on that) but because he refused to question and dismiss a man in his command that was suspected of being gay -- and about another young man who is part of an unusual family, who is brilliant but very right-brained, so the world doesn't have a place to slot in his genius. He has a long, twisted history of personal rejection on multiple fronts, despite his strengths, and oh, he's a shaman, as is his attorney brother -- whether they like it or not. There is this thing about power building each generation if not used, and.... Well.
I see a fantasy novel here, but I try never to leave people out when I write. A dear friend said: "Will anyone read it if the protagonists are gay, or maybe gay?" Yes, nowadays, it indeed will be read, if a good enough story. But it's a point -- so...suddenly Keelin, the female protagonist in the mystery, is jumping up and down and waving her arms and saying HEY!
"What if instead of being part Ojibwa, I'm half a made-up tribe, the majority of whom are shamans? And I'm the daughter of a Darkhorse daughter -- and Ash is the son of a Darkhorse son. So we have a big mix, straights with no children, my sister and cousins with children, and the shifter who doesn't know that he also has relatives in this direction, although their family tried to be bad guys and -- "
"WAIT!" I yell. "For heaven's sake, don't give me four books right now! The question is -- are you ready to kill BLIND TIGER as it currently exists? Maybe even half your and D's story to fit Fox and Ash in here? Or would y'all still be in two books?"
Long silence. Characters are realists -- they know if they die somewhere else, they may not be reborn. Life happens, as my illness shows. Still -- looking at what I want for the new story, and looking at the world-building underneath BLIND TIGER already -- it feels like 20% of the idea is already done. 60-75%, if I do a first book with Keelin and "Steve", and a second with them supporting Ash and Fox.
So --
1) Have you killed a novel before? A novel you liked, whose time just doesn't seem to be rolling around?
2) Did you screw around with the idea a while, before stabbing the old book?
3) Why did you simply not make clones with different names, a la Georgette Heyer and THE BLACK MOTH?
4) When did you tell your agent? Should I ask him to pull the novel now, or should I go on the basis that should the book actually sell in its current form at the 11th hour -- I can file off the serial numbers in the fantasy using global search/replace.
Opinions? I'm curious how others have handled this. I may have answered my own question by writing those 8 pages today. But I welcome hearing what you did, and why you did it.
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(that said, why not? If the mystery sells eventualy, then your fans can play crossover-hunting!)
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I like having lots of options.
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Good luck with the new project!
Thanks --
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Well --
I might have to do these stories, and the Spider goddess, under a pseudonym. (Which is ironic because I'm isolating them for pansexual relationships and the occult, and of course the Allie books have lots of occult stuff -- just gentler for the 12 year olds.)
Or simply have web sites that don't have links -- or dedications to each other!
no subject
Took a whole subplot out of a collaboration novel when collaborator and I couldn't agree on...well...anything. This subplot became a big part of the Stargods Trilogy.
Huh --
In a way, I would be abandoning pure mystery, at least for this group of characters. But a writer should write for themselves, and then for people they want to share stuff with. I try to write only what I'd like to read. So...leaning toward merging stuff. We'll see what my subconscious tells me about it. Does it find a way to give two mysteries for one story? Or not? And then -- how long a contemporary fantasy can I hope to sell?
Re: Huh --
I didn't have as much invested in the collaboration as the other author. We divided up plots, characters, and subplots. I took my favorites, she took hers and we haven't spoken since. The subplot and characters that wound up in the Stargods Tilogy fit better there than in the collaboration anyway.
Re: Huh --
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And, yes, I have cannibalized manuscripts. Just not the ones I loved the most. :)
That I understand --
I have never cannibalized the Spider Goddess stuff. I can't -- I just have to keep coming back until I get it right.
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If I were in your case, I would go for #4.
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Well, I think I'm leaning that way. I also have a couple other things to settle before I go full tilt, but I think I'm almost ready to run.
Hope things are well at your end of the world.
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Heck, I got rid of two piles just talking to Bev about it on the phone...that's got to be a good sign.
Now, must hit drugstore before it closes....
no subject
But the thought of cannibalizing a completed, novel-length manuscript written since going pro makes me twitch. I'm not sure I could bring myself to do it — assuming that "cannibalize," in this usage, means taking enough material from the original that if the organ recipient gets published, the organ donor is no longer viable for sale.
Of course, several things make me twitch that don't cause others to. Tuckerization, for instance. I can't do it. It doesn't bother me when others do it, but I just can't.
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I've done that once, but the person so honored felt a little twitchy about it. She told me she now knew why more primitive peoples felt that a picture could steal their souls.
So I don't expect to do it again. I might use a name as a planet or something, but it ends there.
This time...so much of the original book would be retained. A couple of supporting characters might have smaller parts in the first book, and larger in a succeeding book. Of course -- to a certain extent, I would be simply doing a final draft that has s bigger subplot and a woven plot, plus two more POV characters.
I have very old partials I took names or kernels of ideas from...this is the first time I might do this.